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What is Natural bodybuilding + interview natural bodybuilder

What is Natural bodybuilding + interview natural bodybuilder

Geschreven door Nathan Albers

Geschatte leestijd: 19 minuten 

Natural bodybuilding is bodybuilding without the use of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) and growth hormones. Since natural bodybuilders seem to be a dying breed, we’ve included an interview at the end of this article. But first, let’s delve into the phenomenon: natural bodybuilding.

Natural bodybuilding

Actually, I found this article unnecessary. Just like an article about “natural soccer.” Of course, I’m aware of the existence and use of AAS. After all, I write articles about it. The term “Natural bodybuilding” is for me just like “fries without” instead of just “fries.” The addition of the term “without/natural” implies that there are multiple usual possibilities, so you have to specify what you mean.

At one point, I realized that I should start saying that I do “natural bodybuilding” (instead of “bodybuilding”) because most people otherwise automatically assume that I want “fries with,” in other words, that I use steroids. Why? Because I’ve achieved some results and because I’ve been doing bodybuilding (and lifelong strength training) for more than 13 years and apparently, it’s an exception not to use AAS.

I used to assume that (non-competitive) bodybuilding without the use of AAS is the norm and that the use of anabolic steroids mainly occurred among the minority of regular gym-goers or by the mega-sized pros. I knew the statistics but still had an image of the guys who train longer than me and are bigger than me, or the few guys who are just starting bodybuilding and have no patience to wait for results. You understand that I was wrong.

I found out that I am the exception to the rule! At least, one of the exceptions to the rule. I’ve been training seriously for about 11 years, focusing on muscle mass, paying attention to nutrition. In that time, I (with a height of 1.83) went from 63kg to 83kg. Yes, I was a skinny beanpole, but as leanly muscular as Bruce Lee, and I’ve been training with bodyweight since I was five. I am an ectomorph, which means I have little/no predisposition to store body fat, but also have difficulty gaining muscle mass quickly. As many will recognize, I achieved the most results in the first years, encountered the law of diminished returns since then, and have been mainly maintaining the level I achieved before. Why do I call myself an exception to the rule? Because I have learned that most guys who train just as seriously (or more seriously) with the same goals, after that initial period of (rapid) muscle gain, do not settle for the fact that they have to do more and more for less result, or that they have reached their natural limit.

For the articles I have written about steroids, I have read various studies on users in the Netherlands. These figures seem to be less alarming (hence my initial misconception). Many of these studies focus on fitness and sports in general. If you walk into an average gym and ask random people if they use steroids, and they would truthfully answer, you would probably end up with about 6%-8% of people who are found to be using, as the NeCeDo (Dutch Centre for Doping Questions) also found. So they also ask the housewife who trains 1.2 times a week to fit into those tight pants and the many people who mainly want to lose weight or go to the gym for fun. However, if you ask the same question to guys like me, who don’t train 1.2 times a week for fun and mess around, but really train hard to gain more muscle mass, you’ll probably be shocked.

This was my experience after increasingly addressing these guys on this topic. Not only did almost all of them use without exception, they automatically assumed that I did too! When I told someone in the gym last week that I’m writing an article about natural bodybuilding, he said in amazement, “But that’s not you, you’re into the chemical stuff, right?” It was mainly the naturalness of the assumption that I use that shocked me. It sounded almost like, “Are you still swimming in the kiddie pool, no way?”

First and foremost, this strongly depends on the gym. The gym where I encountered this so much was somewhat known for this.

Anabolic use in competition and among top bodybuilders

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not naive enough to think anything other than that the entire annual lineup of, for example, the Mr. Olympia elections is heavily “juiced” (uses steroids).

“All professional bodybuilders use AAS”

Perhaps a bold statement not appreciated by everyone, but more on that later. You simply don’t stand a chance without the use of AAS because the physiques shown by, for example, IFBB pros surpass natural human potential. It is therefore important to make a distinction between competition athletes and guys who never aspire to stand on stage. At the competition level, I can more easily understand why the temptation is difficult to resist. Just as I can understand it more when you use during the Tour de France (who was surprised when Armstrong had to hand in his Tour titles?) than when you use doping for your weekly ride through the park and over the dike. Even more than cyclists, bodybuilders are at the forefront of trying out the newest products to perform even better or to avoid being caught as quickly. However, there is something to be gained. Win the Mr. Olympia and you can earn a few hundred thousand dollars in prize money and especially sponsorship. Do it a few times and you’ll have the driveway of your detached house full of the most expensive cars like Ronnie Coleman. Then learn to act and speak with an Austrian accent, and you’ll become the governor of California.

The difference with other sports is, incidentally, that athletes normally only use doping “only” when they are competing at a higher level, while bodybuilders often do this already to show off on the beach. This is also important in the discussion of whether bodybuilding competitions without steroids are interesting. I’m not saying there are no natural big guys, but who would watch a world championship or Mr. Olympia if there are bigger guys in your own gym who use? Who would still watch Usain Bolt if guys in your own street run the 100 meters in under 9 seconds because they can use doping unchecked?

Natural bodybuilding?

Natural bodybuilding is bodybuilding as it was originally intended: a way to improve your health while improving your physique at the same time. If you look at the IFBB professionals mentioned above, you realize that little of the first part remains. In the words of a well-known IFBB professional, Kenneth “Flex” Wheeler: “Bodybuilding has nothing to do with health”. He said that because he used over $25,000 worth of AAS and

growth hormones per competition and eventually had to stop bodybuilding due to (at least accelerated) kidney problems.

In natural bodybuilding, training and your diet actually contribute to your health instead of posing an additional risk

(exceptions like accidents in the gym and injuries aside).

However, if you search for “natural bodybuilding” on the larger bodybuilding forums, you mainly hear reactions like: “Everyone lies about that” or “You can only get really big with steroids,” “Training naturally? Why would you?”. You get the impression that bodybuilding without steroids is like sex without a condom. Fun in the beginning, but not sustainable when it gets serious.

When I look at the gym where I train myself, it seems that people believe the same thing. Of the guys who have as much muscle mass as I do (or more), at least 80% use, and I’m not that big!! I don’t know about the remaining 20%, so I can’t say that they don’t use. I’m talking about the guys who spend enough time in the gym and have enough understanding of (the basics of) training and nutrition to really achieve results. So I’m not talking about the impatient, undisciplined, and ignorant losers who have barely been training for a year, have no clue about nutrition and training principles, don’t know what creatine is, but already reach for steroids.

Advantages of natural bodybuilding

The advantage of natural bodybuilding is simply the absence of the disadvantages of steroid use. Think of all possible side effects of AAS as mentioned in the general article about AAS and in articles about specific AAS such as nandrolone and dianabol. Besides possible side effects, a major disadvantage of steroid use is the yo-yo effect and the mental effects of this. With steroid use, you achieve results faster, but you also lose this result just as quickly. I can immediately tell from different guys whether they are on a cycle or have just stopped a cycle because the differences are so significant. This relapse after discontinuation of a cycle is mentally very heavy for many. Moreover, as a natural, you don’t have to mess around with injection needles or worry about being sold fake steroids.

Natural bodybuilding is bodybuilding for the long term. The results may take a little longer, but you also maintain them longer. Moreover, it’s easier to sustain. With natural bodybuilding, you only need to incorporate rest and occasionally change training intensity and method. Weight loss only occurs consciously when you’re cutting or taking extra rest, but not imposed because you have to stop a cycle and watch your muscles melt away.

Competitions for natural bodybuilders

The same skepticism is heard when it comes to competitions for naturals. In several respects. First, there is the question of how natural the participants actually are. Additionally, some don’t find these competitions interesting at all because the level is lower. When I considered participating in a competition for naturals, insiders quickly told me that some of the so-called naturals on the podium apparently had a very broad understanding of natural training. Read on the same forum mentioned above, and you will hear guys tell themselves that despite past use, they later participated in a natural bodybuilding competition. This was an honest story from someone who hadn’t used for a while (but still benefits from it). See the article on “Muscle memory“), but there are plenty who use until a month or two before the competition, or even use until the competition and simply submit someone else’s urine on the day of the competition.

These are the guys who are smaller than the rest at “regular competitions” and then participate in naturals so that they can still feel somewhat big. Although I always say that I don’t judge users of AAS, I can only say one thing about these guys: “You fucking loser!” Just as bad as Cartman pretending to be mentally disabled to participate in the Special Olympics to have a chance to win something.

Whatever the reason for use is, the underlying thought is apparently: “Without steroids, I can’t get as (quickly) muscular as I want.”

So the question is:

How big, or muscular, can you get without steroids?

Well, quite big, but never as big as a Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath, Jay Cutler, Kai Greene, Marcus Ruhl, and so on. This question cannot be answered generally because it is highly dependent on personal characteristics. Steroids are in this respect like breast augmentation, they break through limits set by genes. Why does one person have muscle mass and a six-pack after 3 years of training, while another with the same dedication remains skinny, and another cannot get rid of his six-pack? Nurture and nature, or upbringing and genes. This is different for everyone and not equally easy for everyone to accept. Why never as big as the mentioned top bodybuilders? Because they are truly the (physical) top. These are the people who have fantastic genes, combined with iron discipline, professional guidance, and sponsors to provide them with the best supplements… and tons of steroids.

Natural or not, a matter of genes, upbringing, and friends or principles, motivation, and discipline?

This is also the reason why I can’t always condemn the use of AAS. I sometimes see guys in the gym who weigh every meal and may train more disciplined than I do myself, but don’t achieve any/few results due to their genes and/or body type. Or due to the fact that they have created so many extra fat cells in their youth that they can never get rid of them. Or due to the fact that they never learned to push themselves to the limit in their youth. I honestly don’t know what I would do in such a case. However, this should not be too easy an excuse. You only know what you can do after years of training at a high level and also have good nutrition. I often hear that you can’t get big without AAS. That is incorrect and is often said by people who,

for whatever reason, have not succeeded themselves, where envy plays a big role, or where general terms are used while it concerns a personal limitation of the speaker. You can get big, but not superhumanly big.

As an illustration, when I walk along a beach, there are always people who (briefly) look at my body. However, it remains just looking and occasionally asking how you can get so muscular. I’m not that big, but always dry. However, if you look at a Roelie Winklaar in New York or Kai Greene walking along a boulevard with Shawn Ray, you’ll see that they have to stop every meter to take pictures with people. They have such a size that it’s just a freak show with accompanying reactions from the public. I’m like a chick with DD in a tight bikini being stared at on the beach, the IFBB pros are like that woman on German “Got Talent” who crushed melons with breasts that came down to her knees and broke baseball bats. One is big, the other is excessively big.

Education also includes your environment such as school and friends. I’ve always trained alone, with occasional help in the gym, but without a fixed training partner. In all those years of training, someone has only approached me once with the question of whether I would like to use, and that question was only asked because I was just writing an article about AAS. I would really have to actively seek it out if I wanted to use it and have no friends who use it. The threshold is then quite high. But what if you start training with friends who use? You are persuaded to go to the gym with them, aren’t smart enough to work out for yourself at your own level, but immediately want to be able to keep up with them. How long does it take for them to advise you to use and you follow this advice? Especially if you notice in that short time, or already know that you genetically don’t have the predisposition to become muscular.

Examples of natural bodybuilders.

To come back to fairly large, I want to introduce you to one of the world’s most famous natural bodybuilders, Ron Coleman. Now you might laugh hard and think “If Ronnie Coleman is natural then Michael Jackson wasn’t a pedophile,” but I don’t mean the 8-time Mr. Olympia, but the IFBB professional, former Mr. Universe, winner of the IFBB North America class, “Gold medalist” during the Pan America games, and overall winner of the Team Universe, Ron “Alcatraz” Coleman. This man not only managed to build a beautiful physique but even became Mr. Universe and undoubtedly left a lot of users in the dust. Other examples include: Kiyoshi Moody, Doug Miller, Jim Cordova, and Jeff Rodriguez. At least they claim to be natural. Determining if someone uses is much easier than determining if someone has never used. Personally, I have my doubts about some of the above names.

How do you know if someone is clean or uses steroids?

You don’t! And herein lies the problem: How do you know if someone is natural? How often is someone caught using doping during the Olympic Games or for example the Tour de France? I opened a newspaper when the Olympic Games were in full swing in London and read in an article how doubts were raised about whether the young Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen, 16, who had already won two gold medals, was using doping. This despite the fact that she had been tested more than a hundred times in the past year.

Lance Armstrong, just before writing this article on August 28, 2012, already lost Tour victories while there was not enough evidence of use in one of the most controlled sports for all those years! Controls can never provide 100% certainty of use or no use. You can’t always check everyone. Even if you, like the IOC, work with a “whereabouts list” so that bodybuilders always have to let you know where they are so they can be checked. Not only because not all new substances are known to the controllers, but also because controls are very expensive and you cannot test everyone for every known substance without it costing hundreds of euros per test per person.

In addition, you can continue to benefit from anabolic use for years after you have stopped. Research has shown that extra muscle cell nuclei created by AAS do not disappear when use is stopped. They do shrink again, so you don’t see visibly larger muscles, but they remain present as extra potential when you train. If someone starts competing at the age of 25, he/she may have used for years. Controls therefore say little if someone has greatly benefited from AAS until a year earlier.

There are formulas and indicators such as the FFMI (Fat Free Mass Index) which can strongly suggest that someone is using simply because someone would simply be too big (dry weight relative to height) to be natural. However, there are a few problems with this. This says nothing if you are using, but are not yet big enough to be exposed by this calculation. In addition, it is based on the assumption that there is a natural limit for lean body mass. This natural limit was established by comparing 83 users with 74 non-users. Even assuming that the non-users really did not use, there is still a problem with this formula. They determined that for the non-users an index of 25 was the limit. They also looked at 20 mr. America’s from the time when anabolics were not yet known. They averaged 25.4. Not surprising if you consider this the best naturals. Then they looked at the 83 users and saw that they easily exceeded 25 and sometimes even exceeded 30! So you have to wonder how representative the groups examined are, although you can say with some certainty that someone with an index above 26 is using. However, this adds little since you probably already thought that of everyone who is unbelievably big.

Users often lie about this for various reasons. In some cases, I can also understand it. You train hard, eat well, and then you hear that all your results are due to steroids. Especially in the case of people who don’t train themselves and are ignorant. At the same time, this is very misleading. A certain person (A) once told in a gym that another person (B) (sorry, vague language due to privacy) had told him (B) that he (B) had only used AAS once, a long time ago. I was surprised by this because the same person (B) had told me several times about his regular use and I knew from his own mouth that he had recently followed a cycle. The only good reason I can think of for this is that he didn’t want to encourage the other person in question (A), who has not been training for long, to use.

This is also the reason why I, exceptionally, placed photos of myself with this article because I can only confirm with certainty that I am natural. Photos that some naturals will say “what a little guy” about while others will say “There’s no way he’s natural” because they can’t achieve the same result. That does not mean that some naturals cannot be much larger while others will never be able to reach this level due to genetic differences or differences in effort.

Controls on anabolic use by bodybuilders in the Netherlands

Despite their voluminous stature, pumped muscles, dehydrated body, and with a severe calorie deficit due to competition preparation, bodybuilders can still be competition for Usain Bolt when officials suddenly enter for a doping test during a competition. Then you see how someone with over 100 kilograms of dry muscle mass runs the 100 meters in under 10 seconds. This happened, among other times, in 2009 in Vlissingen when the Belgian championships could no longer take place because after this mass sprint there were no participants left. Also in 2011 in Etten-Leur something similar happened when Belgian doping controllers walked in accompanied by police officers. Not only the Belgians, but also the Dutch bodybuilders didn’t know how quickly they had to leave. “Too bad for the audience,” you hear them say. “Sorry guys, steroids have left the building.” The funny thing is that they react heavily indignant to the fact that the doping controllers would have ruined the competition. Reminded me of the priests in South Park (yes, I’m a fan) who didn’t try to figure out how to prevent sexual abuse, but how to keep those troublesome boys quiet. Who has ruined it now, the participants who dare not stand on stage without steroids or the controllers?

In the Netherlands, there are various bodybuilding associations that deal with doping use in different ways. I will discuss the largest and only one recognized by the IOC. IFBB/NBBF Worldwide, the IFBB, International Federation of Bodybuilding, is the largest bodybuilding association. IFBB/NBBF is the Dutch branch. Suppose you want

to participate in a competition for the first time and are considering participating in an IFBB competition. However, you are natural and want to avoid standing on stage with all users, so you search for information about doping control within the IFBB. You won’t find much wiser from the IFBB/NBBF website, so you send an email with some questions like I did recently. I quickly received an answer from none other than Juliette Bergmann, the only Dutch person ever to win the overall title at the Olympia and currently an international judge for the IFBB and secretary and treasurer of the NBBF: Kenneth: Is the use of AAS and other doping allowed in the IFBB/NBBF? Juliette: The use of AAS is not allowed in the IFBB, we fall under the IWGA and under WADA Kenneth: How, how often, and when is use tested? Juliette: Out of competition testing is done and at the IFBB competitions random tests are carried out at the weigh-in and among the finalists of each separate class. Kenneth: What are the consequences if caught? Juliette: suspension and/or a fine. Kenneth: How often does someone get caught? Are there, for example, participants who are suspended from participating in competitions annually and if so, for how long? Juliette: As far as NL athletes are concerned, there are not many, on average 1 per year, suspension can vary from 1 year to 2 years or expulsion, this depends on whether it is a first time or a repeat and what was used. Kenneth: If use is not allowed in the IFBB/NBBF, why are there competitions for naturals? Juliette: There are several federations Natural and non-Natural but of all these BB & Fitness federations only the IFBB is recognized by IWGA (Worlgames) and by WADA.

Examples of natural bodybuilders

To come back to fairly large, I want to introduce you to one of the world’s most famous natural bodybuilders, Ron Coleman. Now you might laugh hard and think “If Ronnie Coleman is natural then Michael Jackson wasn’t a pedophile,” but I don’t mean the 8-time Mr. Olympia, but the IFBB professional, former Mr. Universe, winner of the IFBB North America class, “Gold medalist” during the Pan America games, and overall winner of the Team Universe, Ron “Alcatraz” Coleman. This man not only managed to build a beautiful physique but even became Mr. Universe and undoubtedly left a lot of users in the dust. Other examples include: Kiyoshi Moody, Doug Miller, Jim Cordova, and Jeff Rodriguez. At least they claim to be natural. Determining if someone uses is much easier than determining if someone has never used. Personally, I have my doubts about some of the above names.

How do you know if someone is clean or uses steroids?

You don’t! And herein lies the problem: How do you know if someone is natural? How often is someone caught using doping during the Olympic Games or for example the Tour de France? I opened a newspaper when the Olympic Games were in full swing in London and read in an article how doubts were raised about whether the young Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen, 16, who had already won two gold medals, was using doping. This despite the fact that she had been tested more than a hundred times in the past year.

Lance Armstrong, just before writing this article on August 28, 2012, already lost Tour victories while there was not enough evidence of use in one of the most controlled sports for all those years! Controls can never provide 100% certainty of use or no use. You can’t always check everyone. Even if you, like the IOC, work with a “whereabouts list” so that bodybuilders always have to let you know where they are so they can be checked. Not only because not all new substances are known to the controllers, but also because controls are very expensive and you cannot test everyone for every known substance without it costing hundreds of euros per test per person.

In addition, you can continue to benefit from anabolic use for years after you have stopped. Research has shown that extra muscle cell nuclei created by AAS do not disappear when use is stopped. They do shrink again, so you don’t see visibly larger muscles, but they remain present as extra potential when you train. If someone starts competing at the age of 25, he/she may have used for years. Controls therefore say little if someone has greatly benefited from AAS until a year earlier.

There are formulas and indicators such as the FFMI (Fat Free Mass Index) which can strongly suggest that someone is using simply because someone would simply be too big (dry weight relative to height) to be natural. However, there are a few problems with this. This says nothing if you are using, but are not yet big enough to be exposed by this calculation. In addition, it is based on the assumption that there is a natural limit for lean body mass. This natural limit was established by comparing 83 users with 74 non-users. Even assuming that the non-users really did not use, there is still a problem with this formula. They determined that for the non-users an index of 25 was the limit. They also looked at 20 mr. America’s from the time when anabolics were not yet known. They averaged 25.4. Not surprising if you consider this the best naturals. Then they looked at the 83 users and saw that they easily exceeded 25 and sometimes even exceeded 30! So you have to wonder how representative the groups examined are, although you can say with some certainty that someone with an index above 26 is using. However, this adds little since you probably already thought that of everyone who is unbelievably big.

Users often lie about this for various reasons. In some cases, I can also understand it. You train hard, eat well, and then you hear that all your results are due to steroids. Especially in the case of people who don’t train themselves and are ignorant. At the same time, this is very misleading. A certain person (A) once told in a gym that another person (B) (sorry, vague language due to privacy) had told him (B) that he (B) had only used AAS once, a long time ago. I was surprised by this because the same person (B) had told me several times about his regular use and I knew from his own mouth that he had recently followed a cycle. The only good reason I can think of for this is that he didn’t want to encourage the other person in question (A), who has not been training for long, to use.

This is also the reason why I, exceptionally, placed photos of myself with this article because I can only confirm with certainty that I am natural. Photos that some naturals will say “what a little guy” about while others will say “There’s no way he’s natural” because they can’t achieve the same result. That does not mean that some naturals cannot be much larger while others will never be able to reach this level due to genetic differences or differences in effort.

Controls on anabolic use by bodybuilders in the Netherlands

Despite their voluminous stature, pumped muscles, dehydrated body, and with a severe calorie deficit due to competition preparation,

I recently read in the latest issue of Body Magazine that Ron, with his baby face, has been tested once, just once, in the 30 years that he competed. A former Dutch bodybuilding champion and top athlete who asked not to be named told me that he had never been tested in all his years of competing at national and international level. The last time he stood on stage was in 2007.

I’m not sure if they don’t test at all or if they only test the top 3, but it seems to be working on a kind of black list in the Netherlands. You will not get tested if you are not known, but if you have ever been caught or convicted of use, they will take care of you. But even if you are on that blacklist, you can still compete abroad or in a different category, such as in Belgium. The WADA code applies here, but not every country complies with this, and it is unclear how and when they test.

They don’t test during contests here in the Netherlands and I haven’t heard of it at contests abroad either. I have also never heard of a Dutch athlete being caught, although I know for sure that some Dutch athletes have used and probably still do.

So it’s a bit of a fable that testing works. And despite the fact that the top 3 or 5 of the nationals can also be tested here, I know for sure that some of them also use. If this is not the case, then they should also be tested at random and they should undergo tests like you see in the army: Pissing in a pot while someone looks over your shoulder.

Interview with natural bodybuilder Rob Tuik

Natural bodybuilders seem to be a dying breed. If you’ve been seriously training for muscle mass for more than a decade and have never used steroids, you’re becoming an increasingly rare sight. I am therefore pleased with the stories of other naturals for motivation. Like the story of Rob Tuik, former Dutch Champion Natural Bodybuilding:

“How I started training”

At the age of fifteen, I saw a movie set in a prison, and the person involved did push-ups and sit-ups every day. I liked that idea, so I started “training.”

Until I was seventeen, I did gymnastics and a bit of martial arts. A good friend of mine was involved in motor trials (agility sport) at a high level, and he had become Dutch champion several times. I actually wanted to find something where I could feel completely at home and where I could also achieve something in a sporting sense. From then on, I really started training in a gym and I never stopped. I have been training for 27 years now, and I currently train at home.

The beauty of this sport is that it can give you stability in difficult times and it has brought me discipline. I had been training for about 11 months when my oldest brother committed suicide. I was 19 years old at the time. A day I can never forget. My world collapsed, but fortunately, I had the strength to keep training. I could get my thoughts out here and I dreamed away, envisioning myself becoming the Dutch champion natural bodybuilding someday.

Sports became the thread running through my life, and it would always be there for me. Even in difficult times. I could rely on it. The downside of this was that in the beginning, everything had to make way for my sport.

I then turned down many good jobs because I thought they would negatively impact my sport. Fortunately, the sharp edges are now gone, and I strike a balance.

Why I have always remained Natural.

I often trained with a Belgian powerlifting champion at the time. A big guy but incredibly nice. The gym where I trained then, and especially my training partner, educated me well on sports nutrition. In other words, they were strongly against the use of muscle-enhancing substances. So I was fortunate to have grown up in the right environment in terms of sports. I say this explicitly because many young people do not even know that it can be done without them. I don’t have a problem with people ultimately choosing to use them, as long as they realize what they are choosing. I have respect for everyone in terms of training intensity and hardship in the gym and also respect everyone’s choices.

First Natural Bodybuilding Competition

After 18 months of training, I entered my first Natural competition by Fred Rombouts. My 2nd competition was in the congress building in The Hague. Packed with 2000 people. What an experience.

“Became Dutch champion Natural Bodybuilding…”

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